MARC SMERLING: Wow, what a turn out. This is incredible. Who knew. I'm Marc Smerling.


ZAC STUART-PONTIER: And I'm Zac Stuart-Pontier.


MARC: Welcome to Crimetown.


ZAC: Live.




MARC: So, we started this, sort of in a very organic fashion. And one of the guys we met early on was Dan Barry who works for The New York Times, writes for The New York Times, but previously had worked for The Providence Journal and won a Pulitzer Prize there. And he was sort of our consigliere, our guru. He showed us the way so – and he very nicely volunteered to be the MC tonight so.


ZAC: You guys have heard enough of us. You don't need to hear us talk anymore.


MARC: We'll be at the end. We'll come back and answer questions. But welcome to the stage, Dan Barry.


DAN BARRY: So let me tell you how I came to this as a young reporter who back then had hair. I was working in north central Connecticut and, you know, working for a small newspaper: covering school boards, high school graduations, religious cults. You know, as you do. And so I needed to get a job elsewhere. And so I looked to Providence. A friend of mine said that it was a reporter's theme park. OK? That appealed to me. So through some clerical error I got hired and, and I fucking loved it. All right. It was like living in film noir with the Marx Brothers somewhere. Do you know what I mean? Even the smell of it, you know, you'd smell Narragansett Bay. And there was still just a hint of menace in everything, you know? So I used to ride around in car one. Car one was the car that all the cop reporters shared at The Providence Journal. It was like a dumpster from a Dunkin Donuts on wheels. You know what I mean? There was old newspapers and half eaten bagels and it had a police scanner and so you could hear, you know, the miseries of Providence all night. That was my radio, listening to the miseries, and it was always like the sound of the city trying to cough up something unpleasant. And riding around in car one, I would slow down in front of Coin-o-matic, which was the squat building that was the headquarters for New England organized crime, as we all know, the headquarters for Raymond L.S. Patriarca.


And in the afternoon I'd be riding around and I turn on the radio and I would hear a talk show and it was a talk show hosted by a former mayor, a convicted felon – the Buddy Cianci Show. So what other city, I don't know what that means – does that mean this is a city of redemption and of forgiveness or is it a city of, like, fuck you, this is how we do it. That was my welcome to Rhode Island. Welcome to Crimetown.




ZAC: Should we be like, you've heard us talking about – you know, something like that, where we're introing? We wanted something much more eloquent.


ZAC: A real journalist with integrity.


MARC: A man with less hair.


ZAC: And a Pulitzer.


BARRY: What the fuck am I doing here?


AUSTIN: Hey Alex. Is this part of your vision when you started with the show?


ALEX: Yes, I was like – gangster stage shows. Year 3. Just exactly as I planned.


AUSTIN: Year 3? You thought it would take that long?


ALEX: We’re a little ahead of schedule.


AUSTIN: We have Bobby Walason.


KENNY KUSIAK: I saw him, I saw him for sure.


AUSTIN: We have Tony Fiore, Brian Andrews, Barbara Roberts, the Doctor Broad. Charles Kennedy, The Ghost.


KENNY: I'm the most excited to see him.


AUDIENCE MEMBER: I used to wait tables on Federal Hill, and I've waited on Buddy a bunch of times. And he would sit there for hours and hours, drinking Remy Martin and not pay and not tip.


AUDIENCE MEMBER 2: I’m from Rhode Island. I grew up listening to all this stuff going on. With the Tillinghasts, and Patriarca, and all that stuff. It just all came alive to me.


AUSTIN: Welcome, enjoy the show.




BARRY: So, all you Crimetown junkies. Let's see if you recognize this voice.


TAPE OF BOBBY WALASON: In that day, being a wiseguy was the coolest fucking thing in the planet. There was nothing cooler. Movie stars wanted to be around them.


BARRY: Please welcome Bob Walason.




BARRY: Let’s do this thing.


BOB WALASON: Talk to me. Talk to me.


BARRY:  Alright.


BARRY: Mr. Walason is shy.


WALASON: Hello, all you Crimetown lovers. I can't believe there's this many in this area. But I love you, hey.


BARRY: So why don't, why don't you tell us a little bit of how you came into this world that we're exploring here tonight.


WALASON: That's a helluva question. But I'll do the best I can. I came into this world with a mom and dad that couldn't get it together because of drugs, love and whatever else.  Now you're starting to become a teenager and you're going to make decisions. I just decided to take whatever it took to get me what I needed, and I was a little on the crazy side.




WALASON: Of course that will get you in trouble in this country. You'll end up in jail no matter what age you are.


BARRY: You're about 16 or 17?


WALASON: Actually I was 15.


BARRY: Holy Jesus.


WALASON: They kept me locked up for 11 months until I turned 16. When I got back to the ACI, realizing that I'm 16, to stay, I got tough. I got real tough.  


BARRY: You had to, right?


WALASON: I had no choice.


BARRY: There are so many stories and you tell them so well. Tell us the pool story.


WALASON: Oh my god. Nicky Bianco, the next boss. Next boss. Nicky gets out of Danbury.  - and he calls for me. Doesn't call me. He calls for me. So the guys say, hey, Nicky wants to see you. You're in, you're in, but don't be late. What if I’m late, what’s the big deal? It's a big deal. I got there at 10 of 9.

His wife answered the door – Francesca, one of the most beautiful women you'll ever meet. She goes OK I'll go get him. He comes and calls for me at five past nine. This is my first meeting with a guy who you can't be late with. So he said OK listen, I brought you here for a couple reasons but first thing is the little hand on the nine and the big hand on the 12 is 9 o'clock.




WALASON: So he takes me outside of the gazebo and he gets a stick. He goes, here's what I want you to do for me. I just got here, and I want to work around the house. I want you to make a nice little koi pond for me like this. He draws a nice kidney shape. He's such a perfectionist. So. I said OK no problem. Where's the shovels? I went and got the shovels, I went, zing, zing, zing, zing, zing – Nicky, Nicky, yeah it's all done. He says, let me see. You know, I'm probably going to want to put a lot of koi in here so we're going to make it a little wider and he goes around it. I dig it out, you can't even have an attitude, he's so sharp. You gotta be like, I will dig this for you. So I get it done and he comes back and you're not going to believe what he did. He says, if I gotta dig a hole to put fish in, I might as well dig a hole to put people in. I says yeah.




WALASON: He says, he goes, let's dig this full-length pool, kidney shaped. He says, we're just gonna start digging. We'll get it. It will take some time but we're not going anywhere. I dug and dug and dug and dug.

I was even working at night. I wanted to get it done, you know? You don't want to disrespect that guy. They get to the point where the pool was done – it was unbelievable.


BARRY: Did you ever swim in that pool?


WALASON: No I never even went back to the house. Would you?


BARRY: By the way we should say that Mr. Walason is a well-respected, very successful businessman for what, nearly 30 years now? Right. So you had a choice. You could have stayed but you left. So why did you go out?


WALASON: A 9 mm.


BARRY: Is that a program?


WALASON: Yeah, no I got shot – I got shot through the kidney, through the colon, through the liver, through the intestines and – I'm still here.


BARRY:  I don’t think there are any other organs left.


WALASON: No, no they got them all. That's what made me do it. Your question was what made me get out. That makes you get out.


BARRY: Do you miss it?


WALASON: Do I miss the life? Well, I got a blonde up there that's so fucking beautiful, that I wouldn't give her up for anything.


BARRY: Good for you. Alright. Mr. Walason, Bob Walason, thanks very much.




BARRY: So things were changing. After a while, the economic model for organized crime was shifting away at times from bookmaking and loan sharking and all those legitimate illegitimate ways to make money, to something else. To set that up, let's see if you recognize this voice.


TAPE OF CHARLES KENNEDY: Bucky says, “Well, you got any friends that want some cocaine?” Next thing I know I’m buying a scale. And I’m gonna buy my first kilo of cocaine. My first key was $62,500. It was all the money in the world. And I made over $22,000 profit on it. It was that easy? Like that? There was no stopping. No stopping…


BARRY: Please welcome Charles Kennedy, AKA The Wolf, AKA The Ghost.


KENNEDY: Thank you. I'm very humbled that everybody is here. It truly is amazing, Being part of Providence and the dubious distinction of being very corrupt. Well, I helped promote that, that label, for many years.


BARRY: So Charles, you're also shy.




BARRY: So you grew up in Oakland Beach kind of a middle class kid, working class family, right?


KENNEDY: Very middle class, blue collar, mom and dad, strict Irish Catholics. Eat those vegetables. Say your prayers at night.


BARRY: Right. And so how did you go this way?


KENNEDY: Early on I developed quite an interest in locks, in locksmithing which would carry on into my –


BARRY: As we all do.


KENNEDY: And one of the earliest episodes that I can remember was I had a dog and I was living in an apartment house. That dog's name was Satch. He was a Dalmatian. And I remember coming home one afternoon, late one afternoon and my first wife comes out and says they got Satch. I said who's got Satch? It was animal control. So now I formulate a plan of action. I'm going to go to the city dog pound and I'm going to do a jailbreak.




KENNEDY: I got my lockpicks and off I go. I am now at the city dog pound and there's nobody around. And sure enough I look in there. There's Satch, looking up at me. His little tail's going back and forth. How are ya pal, I'll have you out of there in a minute. So I picked the lock and I opened the padlock and out sprang Satch. And as I'm looking over, there's eight other dogs and they're on death row, Dan. There's no tomorrow for these guys. My conscience is bothering me so much.


BARRY: You don't believe in capital punishment, do you.


KENNEDY: No not at all. I proceeded to pick every padlock and spring every dog. I said go! Just get out of here! And unbeknownst to me, somebody took down my license plate and 15 minutes later there was three, four Warwick police cruisers outside and they ring the doorbell. And I go, yes? They go, come outside with the dog. What dog? Don't play games, get him out here. I surrendered myself, and the dog. They locked me up. They locked Satch up. He's in one car, in one cruiser. I'm in the other. He's looking at me, I'm looking at him. And we take, they bring us to the station.


BARRY: They cuff his paws behind him?


KENNEDY: He was cuffed. They cuffed and stuffed him.


BARRY: Alright, so you moved on, though, from canine escape. So I bet there's a lot of moments. Why don't you tell us about the biggest score.


KENNEDY: It's funny you should bring that up.


BARRY: And why would that be, Charles?


KENNEDY: Actually twenty three years ago to this very night, in this very city, I stole over 1.1 million dollars out of the back of a trunk of a car and it was a great night. That was the best I ever had. Like, wow.


BARRY: Brooklyn's been good to you.


KENNEDY: It's been good to me.


BARRY: Tell us a little more about that.


KENNEDY: This was a car that was parked in front of a tenement house and I'm a pretty good thief but I don't wear an invisible suit. And there's people coming up and down, up and down the stairs. I said, man you know, this is going to be difficult. I did happen to have an assistant with me that night – a little exotic dancer, beautiful girl and I strategically placed her at a vantage point where I said I just need a few minutes or I can pick this lock and get in there. So she stood there. I got behind the bumper. I picked that lock and I opened that trunk and I'm looking in and there's a hockey bag. Now, I unzipped that hockey bag, and Dan, it was loaded with cash. It was just so heavy. I sling it over my shoulder and I'm walking down and here I am with the hockey bag, all this money. And it was a beautiful feeling. That was my best.


BARRY: But it came at some cost eventually. Eventually, they did catch you, right?


KENNEDY: Eventually I was informed on which I knew would be my downfall –


BARRY: Which is almost always the way –


KENNEDY: For guys like me it is, yeah.


BARRY: Right. And it cost you 14 years?


KENNEDY: Almost 14 years of my life.


BARRY: Looking back, would you do it again the same way?


KENNEDY: That's a rhetorical question, a philosophical question. Sometimes I say I would. And other times I say there's no amount of money in the world would I ever do that. But in the meantime, you know I had a great time. I had a lot of fun. It afforded me a lifestyle that I never could have afforded.

And again I had that rebellious streak in me. I was an adrenaline junkie. I loved it. I loved living on the edge and that edge cut me in two.


BARRY: Charles Kennedy, thank you. That was great. So a lot of car trunks in Brooklyn will be broken into tonight. There's always that guy who's going to get the money, that isn't really his money. And then there's the guy who's trying to catch that guy who's always trying   to get the money that isn't his money. Right? So let's see if you Crimetown junkies recognized these voices.


TAPE OF BRIAN ANDREWS: I almost shaped my whole career on Tony Fiore to be honest with you.


TAPE OF TONY FIORE: He was assigned to me his whole career. He was just a rookie patrolman. They promoted him from patrolmen, to detective, to everything, all the way up to head of the state police. I made his whole career.


BARRY:  So here are the Sunshine Boys. Brian Andrews the former state police detective commander for Rhode Island, and the former master thief Tony Fiore. [APPLAUSE] Which one is which? Alright. So Brian when was the first time you heard the name Anthony Fiore?


ANDREWS: Actually it was Anthony W. Fiore Jr., date of birth January 13th, 1943. He lived at 34 Cedar Street in Johnston, Rhode Island and drove a brand new Cadillac with F674 on the registration plate. And I first met Tony in 1975, while they were on the run. He and a couple of other guys had offloaded one of their stolen tractor trailer trucks in a wooded location in Cranston, Rhode Island. And we were waiting for them down at the bottom of the driveway and I arrested Tony at gunpoint. I met him at the end of my .357 magnum.


BARRY: That's a lovely story, how you two met. [LAUGHTER] So Tony, maybe you have a different version.


FIORE: No the first time I met Brian was at the, uh, looking down the barrel of his pistol down the bottom of that hill.




BARRY: He looks better without that in front of him, right? Alright, so then time goes by and fate brings the two of you together again, right?


ANDREWS: After Tony served his jail sentence, I began doing surveillance of Tony, of his house. I started off on his street in a van watching the house. Well, I don't know maybe my first, second or third night in the van on the street. It was dark out. It was in the winter of 1978.


FIORE: The van pulls up in front of my house and I'm looking out the window and it stops. So I'm watching, watching. Nobody gets out of the van. So about 15 minutes later, I said there's something wrong here. I go out and I walk towards the van and the back window's got newspapers on ‘em, they’re covered. I said oh, alright.


ANDREWS: All of a sudden my van starts rocking up and down and sideways. It was him and one of his other guys. They made me, parked in the van on the street. So they give me the business. They jumped on the bumpers and they were bouncing around on the van.


FIORE: So I get up behind the bumper. I'm jumping, I pull the back door open. And they're sitting in there, on stools, looking out the thing.


ANDREWS: So obviously after that, we could no longer watch him from the street. He was on the move. We couldn't follow him. You know he was the guy that took me down all the dead end streets. The only way you could follow Tony was with an airplane. We used to rent airplanes and we used to put the aircraft up, and the aircraft sometimes, we'd be up on him all day long. And he went back to work again. [TO TONY] Go ahead.




FIORE: Well, I went down to the Biltmore Hotel in Providence and they used to have these jeweler Board of Trade books. You could just take a book and it had every gold company in, in the United States in it. And they would have how much they had on hand in gold. [LAUGHTER] So now, I didn't even have to go out and look for places for gold, because all you had to do was look in the book. So now I see this place it says Vennerbeck and Clase. So I go get my friend in Boston, which was the alarm guy. And I tell him, I says, I got a place you gotta come and look at down in Rhode Island. We check out the building and we're looking for the wires for the alarm, but they were underground. And they had a manhole in the woods where the wires ran through. So he goes down there, and you know, over a period of a week, we're reading the wires and he says well you know I'm pretty sure you know, I could do this. I could get to the alarm. I says, well, all we got to do, I'll chop some cables that's in the area, I says and, that way here, I'm going to knock everybody out. You know, so, once this alarm's out, and I chopped the cables–


ANDREWS: Sixty thousand telephones, he knocked out of service.




FIORE: So I go and right near the building, I got a big hatchet and I'm hitting the cable and it's just bouncing off because it's a real thick, thick, cable. Sparks were coming out. It looked like the Fourth of July, you know. So finally I get it chopped. Nobody had telephones. Nobody could call anything. I said, well, you know, it’s gotta go, it's part of the game. But it really didn't work out that good because they were waiting for us up there.




ANDREWS: Vennerbeck and Clase was a refinery with ten million dollars in gold inside. So they were working on the alarm system. He's out chopping the cables and we were in an ambush team outside in the woods. So we had to jump up state police, FBI, and the chase was on. We chased them in the woods all night long.


FIORE: They had the place surrounded. Now I'm in the woods, so I end up, you know, walking most of the whole night through the woods. But I was from Rhode Island so I knew it and I walked all the way through the woods and I found, you know, a restaurant, and I called my friend Charlie Kennedy and I said Charlie, I said, I need help, I said, I’m in back of the restaurant. I said, we had a problem. So it was like four o'clock in the morning he said I'll be right there. So he drove up there and he pulled up and he, you know, he picked me up and, you know, there was like four of us they didn't get. One guy was from Boston, an old guy at the time and he comes out of the woods. He's been in the woods, I don't know, a couple of days and he's bitten up by mosquitoes. He was in a swamp. So he sees a building. So he runs into the building to make a phone call and it was the state police barracks.




FIORE: So when he goes into the state police barracks, they looked at him and that was it. They arrested him. But I got to the restaurant and, you know, I got away for a short while because they'd come and arrested me anyway after everything was over. And that was the end of Vennerbeck and Clase.


ANDREWS: And he did his 10 years for it.


FIORE: So like I told them when they arrested me – I said, well listen Brian, no hard feelings. You got a job. Well I had a job. This was my job you know. So you know, what are you going to do.




BARRY: It's kind of beautiful, isn't it how Crimetown brought the two of you together again. That's Captain Brian Andrews and Tony Fiore. Thank you.




FIORE: Appreciate ya’s having us up here. Enjoy the New York people.


BARRY: So we're going to take a little break here, an intermission so I can get a beer or something.




BARRY: Alright we're going to start the second half of the program. You've probably heard a consistent shout out to Bill Malinowski. And Bill Malinowski was a longtime reporter at the Providence Journal and as much as I'm interested in all this stuff, this history and it's not really Mafia nostalgia to me – it's really just one aspect of the human condition. And the one person with whom I could share all this stuff, all these little details and nicknames and all that stuff was Bill Malinowski. He was a very close friend of mine. And so as we're sitting here talking about this stuff and listening to these great guests I think of him and so he passed away last year but he's with us in spirit and his wife Mary Murphy and his daughter Molly are here. A round of applause.






TAPE OF DR. BARBARA ROBERTS: I always wanted to stand up for the underdog and in this situation Raymond was the underdog. He had the whole might of the government against him, wanting to take this frail old guy with one foot in the grave and the other on a banana peel and stick him in prison. I mean I saw a very different side of him. I saw a very sick man who felt persecuted, you know with some reason. I'm not saying that he was an angel but it wasn't my job to decide his guilt or innocence.


BARRY: Dr. Barbara Roberts.


DR. ROBERTS: Dan, can I ask you a question first?




DR. ROBERTS: Whatever happened to ladies first? I have to follow these four consummate acts. They're really hard acts to follow. I'm not criticizing you.




BARRY: So Doctor… [LAUGHTER] Well first of all, just do a little bit of your vitae, your credentials, how about that?


DR. ROBERTS: I went to Case Western Reserve School of Medicine and I was the second female intern accepted into the internship at University Hospitals of Cleveland. I then did a medical residency at Yale New Haven Hospital and then I spent two years at the National Institutes of Health at the lipid metabolism branch and helped design the first study that proved that lowering cholesterol lowers your risk of cardiac events. Then I went to one of the Harvard teaching hospitals, the Peter Bent Brigham and I did my cardiology fellowship there. After that I was in full time academic medicine for two years on the faculty at Penn State's medical school and in 1977, I decided to come to Rhode Island and go into private practice but still maintain an academic position. And I've been on the voluntary faculty at the Brown Medical School since then and still am to this day.




BARRY:  And then on top of that you have the honorific of the Doctor Broad.


DR. ROBERTS: Correct.




BARRY: Why don't you tell us a little about that.


DR. ROBERTS: The first time I heard myself described as the Doctor Broad was in a phone call from a gentleman that I had dated a few years before I became Raymond Senior’s physician. And he called me and he said, I was talking to one of the guys the other day and he said to me, Hey Vinnie, remember that Doctor Broad you used to go out with? She’s the old man's doctor now. And I thought it was hilarious because to me a broad was somebody with big tits and no brains and I was just the opposite. At least I was sure that I didn't have big tits.




BARRY: I'm trying to figure out how to follow that. [LAUGHTER] You become the go-to doctor for Raymond Sr., right?  




BARRY: So you become trusted. Tell us a little bit about how the professional became personal. Was there a blurring of the lines there, over the course of those few years?


DR. ROBERTS: I don't think that there was a blurring of the lines –


BARRY: I don't mean ethically.


DR. ROBERTS: We became close emotionally because we were going through a very unique situation. You know, I took a Hippocratic Oath to put my patients' interests before my own. I didn't take a Hippocratic Oath to only put patients who didn't have a felony record and put their interest ahead of mine, or someone who’d never been accused of a crime. To me, the question of his guilt or innocence was not important. What my obligation was to keep him alive to the best of my ability and I was absolutely convinced that the stress of a trial would kill him and he knew it at some level. I mean, for a long time I think he had been hiding how sick he really was. I mean he was the alleged head of the Patriarca crime family, he had to be invincible.


BARRY: You know we know Raymond Patriarca from the steel-eyed glare in all the photographs, but you knew him in kind of his domesticity, didn't you? You knew him when his guard was a little bit down.


DR. ROBERTS: Once a week I would drive out to Johnston, and Rita would make us lunch and we would sit there and have lunch and then I would examine him and, and occasionally — to cheer him up, because he was basically on home confinement — occasionally I would bring my youngest daughter. She was four years old at the time, so she was in nursery school half the day. And she just became very close. She called him Uncle Raymond but they had two toy poodles Jabbo and Pepe.


BARRY: What were their names?


DR. ROBERTS: Jabbo and Pepe.


BARRY: Do they have records?


DR. ROBERTS: You know I didn't ask, it's quite possible.


BARRY: Charles broke them out


DR. ROBERTS: Well, Jabbo should have had a record because what Jabbo would do is the minute Megan sat down, he would run up and start humping her leg. And Raymond Sr. would get apoplectic, he would be so furious. He would roll up the paper and scream and yell and throw things at the dog and say Rita, get this dog out of here. Jabbo survived.


BARRY: And looking back, would you do it all over again. It was highly anxiety-inducing I think right, much of it, but the whole journey of this cardiologist, well-regarded in the medical field, then having this other aspect to her life that wasn't shared by her brother and sister cardiologists. Is that safe to say?


DR. ROBERTS: Yeah, no. You know, there were physicians who'd stop referring me patients because I was taking care of Raymond. But I think that was counterbalanced by all the people who referred themselves to me because they figured if Raymond goes to her, she must be good. So therefore I'm going to go.


BARRY: It was good for business.


DR. ROBERTS: It was very good for business.




BARRY: Did you advertise that way?


DR. ROBERTS: No, no. Although I said that no matter what I wanted it to say on my gravestone it would say she was Raymond's doctor.


BARRY: Right. Right. Thank you very much. Dr. Barbara Roberts.

Barbara, Barbara, you're gonna stay up here. Just give us a second, we're gonna get some chairs up here.




BARRY: We have some nosy questions from the audience. This one is addressed to Tony. What did you do with the money?


FIORE: I helped out Atlantic City a lot. [LAUGHTER] Just lived it up but mostly to gambling, had a few houses, like I had four marriages so each wife had to get a house.


BARRY: That's very kind of you.


FIORE: And like I say, it was the cars, the gambling, the partying, just spending it. I mean it don't really last that long when you think – I mean you might get $400,000 on your end, and then two months later, you're looking for another score.


BARRY: Yeah, I've had that experience.




BARRY: OK. [LAUGHTER] This might be a question for well, pretty much anybody here. Other than being wives, girlfriends, dancers – what was the role of women in organized crime? Why don't women appear on the organization charts? [LAUGHTER] Let's ask Mr. Walason.


WALASON: I plead the fifth.


BARRY: This is an online question from Patrick. Thank you, Patrick. Did you ever consider going back to your industry after your release? Why didn't you? Tony would you think that going back to what you specialized in back in the early 90s would –


FIORE: There's a big difference from now and back then. They're so sophisticated now. The number one problem that you have, is the cell phones. Now you come out of a bank or you're robbing an armored truck, you've got people chasing you down a street on a cell phone, telling them every street you're on, every move you're on, and there's cameras on every building. It's hard to find a place where there’s no cameras, or somebody chasing you with the cell phone.


BARRY: Yeah, they're so inconsiderate that way.




KENNEDY: I know with my business that foreign exports of weed is a foregone conclusion. Now there's more marijuana produced domestically and now the state is set to take that away from guys like me. They took my job, took my job away. So things have changed dramatically on that. I need work.


BARRY: Those sons of bitches. Marc or Zac, why does the logo for the show use the statehouse instead of City Hall?




MARC: Let's face it, the statehouse is just a better looking building.




MARC: Largest freestanding dome in the Americas, is that right? I think that's what it is.


AUDIENCE MEMBER: Third in the world.


MARC: Third in the world.


BARRY: It's the third in the world what?


MARC: Largest freestanding dome.


BARRY: And somebody knew that? [LAUGHTER] See Rhode Island is so proud. God bless you. I love Rhode Island. You're proud. I love that. And you should be. Thank you very much. Thank you for coming to Crimetown.




ZAC: I just want to say thanks to Dan Barry from moderating a great evening.



ZAC: Crimetown is me, Zac Stuart-Pontier and Marc Smerling

This episode was produced by Rob Szypko, Austin Mitchell, Laura Sim, Drew Nelles and Kate Parkinson-Morgan.

This episode of Crimetown was recorded by Nish Nandankar at the Genius event space in Brooklyn, New York. It was mixed by Matthew Boll and Bobby Lord.

Additional mixing by Enoch Kim, Emma Munger, Martin Peralta, and Kenny Kusiak.

Our title track is “Run To Your Mama” by Goat.

Original music by Jon Ivans, Edwin and Bienart.

Our ad music is by Matthew Boll.

Our digital editor is Rob Szypko.  

Alex Blumberg is The Podfather… He’s an adrenaline junkie, loves living on the edge… and that edge cut him in two.

This season of Crimetown is dedicated to the memory of Bill Malinowski.

Thanks to Dan Barry, The Providence Journal, Julia Heymans, Emily Wiedemann, Ben Gross, Max Kotelchuck, Mary Hall, Taylor Hoffman, David Jacobson, and everyone who came to the live show or sent in questions.

For a full list of credits, bonus content, and to sign up for our newsletter, visit our website at  

You can find us on Twitter @crimetown, and on Facebook and Instagram @crimetownshow.

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Providence is a special place, and we're honored to have told a part of its story.